Anyone have any contacts at Ideo? #SNA-ONA-VNA
|
Tom Short <tom.short@...>
I am looking for an introduction there. If anyone has any contacts
there, especially here in the Bay Area, and would be willing to make an intro, please let me know. Thanks! -Tom
|
|
|
|
Patti Anklam <patti@...>
Hi, Tom,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
did you try Linked In? it seems a natural place for such a question. just curious. /patti Patti Anklam patti@pattianklam.com Quoting Tom Short <tom.short@pge-corp.com>:
I am looking for an introduction there. If anyone has any contacts
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
Maybe Tom is looking to "close a triangle" -- get a direct introduction? Always the preferred route!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
LinkedIn often does not work for a quick/effective intro -- especially if the LinkedIn network path you need to utilize contains people who really don't know each other -- which happens quite a bit. LinkedIn/Facebook/other SNS have become polluted with unusable links[i.e. network noise] because some folks on on these sites will accept any invitation, while others are in a race towards 'my network is bigger' and want to get as many people in their direct circle as possible, even if many/most are strangers. These links often fail when it comes time to activate and use them in finding a path to someone you seek. Just because a 'mathematical path' exists in a network does not mean it will be found, or be effectively utilized. I'd be interested in hearing both + and - experiences in meeting key people through a connection via LinkedIn, Facebook, etc. Valdis valdis@orgnet.com http://www.orgnet.com
On Dec 10, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Patti Anklam wrote:
|
|
|
|
Patti Anklam <patti@...>
I agree with you Valdis -- what's funny is that what I would do with
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
LinkedIn is to find only 2nd degree connections, and as LinkedIn will tell me the names of those people, I would then know who I would want to call on the phone and talk to them about whether their connection at IDEO (or wherever) is the right person for me to connect with. -- Patti Anklam hutchinson associates patti@byeday.net Quoting Valdis Krebs <valdis@orgnet.com>:
Maybe Tom is looking to "close a triangle" -- get a direct
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
I tried that and only got as close as a 3 steps between myself and anyone[not necessarily in the domain Tom seeks] @ Ideo -- sorry Tom, I won't be your boundary spanner. Do you get any 2 step links, Patti? And if you do, then those are 3 step paths for Tom -- assuming you know Tom and the person you connect to in Ideo is the right person for Tom(or knows the right person), otherwise we go to a 4 step path... and start to run into the network horizon and the problems I described.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Can anyone reach the right person in Ideo in either 1 step or following Patti's approach on either LinkedIn or Facebook? If this list is sufficiently diverse & open [i.e. we are not one big cul de sac or clique], then the math is on Tom's side for a few recommended links that 'cross the chasm' in a short enough path. Valdis valdis@orgnet.com http://www.orgnet.com
On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Patti Anklam wrote:
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
I tried that and only got as close as a 3 steps between myself and anyone[not necessarily in the domain Tom seeks] @ Ideo -- sorry Tom, I won't be your boundary spanner. Do you get any 2 step links, Patti? And if you do, then those are 3 step paths for Tom -- assuming you know Tom and the person you connect to in Ideo is the right person for Tom(or knows the right person), otherwise we go to a 4 step path... and start to run into the network horizon and the problems I described.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Can anyone reach the right person in Ideo in either 1 step or following Patti's approach on either LinkedIn or Facebook? If this list is sufficiently diverse & open [i.e. we are not one big cul de sac or clique], then the math is on Tom's side for a few recommended links that 'cross the chasm' in a short enough path. Valdis valdis@orgnet.com http://www.orgnet.com
On Dec 10, 2007, at 2:05 PM, Patti Anklam wrote:
|
|
|
|
David Snowden <snowded@...>
You guys mind if I blog this conversation and quote you?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
In the same circumstances I would (i) blog the request and (ii) put up a wall and status message on Facebook. I might try Linked In, and so far it seems to work Dave Snowden Founder & Chief Scientific Officer Cognitive Edge Pte Ltd Now blogging at www.cognitive-edge.com
On 10 Dec 2007, at 19:28, Valdis Krebs wrote:
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
Sure, go ahead. ...two SNA practitioners in a problem-solving
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
discussion... should be a learning experience for many... including Patti and I! Although... I hope I don't get ex-communicated from LinkedIn for revealing a skeleton in their closet... ;-) Valdis
On Dec 10, 2007, at 3:25 PM, David Snowden wrote:
You guys mind if I blog this conversation and quote you?
|
|
|
|
Tom Short <tom.short@...>
Wow - what a discussion that request triggered...interesting all by itself. Regarding trying LinkedIn, yes, tried it several times. Main issue is as Valdis has already described - I only have 3rd order and higher connections. I figured - well, ok, so first I'll scan the list of Ideo people that I have 3rd order connections to. I'll pick the one who would be my preferred starting point in terms of learning more about Ideo (which is my goal). Then I'll look at who my 3rd order connections are, send them a quick note, and ask them to do me a favor and figure out who *their* connections are to my Ideo target, use some social capital to get them to broker the intro, and away we go. Looked good on paper - didn't work. Not only did I not get any offers for help from the two or three people I asked in my network, I didn't even get a reply from them to my request! The nerve of some people ;-) Anyway, that was back in October or so. I checked my connections again a few days ago and nothing had changed, and I'm still quite interested in finding someone there to meet with, so I figured I'd post to this group, and see if I might turn up some 2nd or 3rd order connects I didn't know I had (not everyone on this board is in my LinkedIn network, yet I still feel like I know many of you). And fwiw, in terms of successes using LinkedIn, one thing I have used it for successfully in the past is finding IBMers. Being an IBM alum (7 yrs with them), I feel like I can leverage Big Blue's most excellent culture of open connectivity and reach out to any IBMer (sometimes former employees, but always current ones), call them out of the blue, introduce myself as an alum, and they will talk to me. I did this when I was interviewing with PG&E, and wanted to learn more about the company from someone with an insider's perspective. I found a Director at IBM who listed in his LinkedIn profile 17 years of experience with PG&E before May be more info that you wanted - my attempt to address the various questions/topics that you all raised in your posts. As for Dave's request - I have no objection to your posting this conversation on your blog. Happy holidays, all. (And I'm still looking for that Ideo contact - I'm also trying the cold-call approach - still no success). rgds,
--- In sikmleaders@..., "Tom Short"
wrote: > > I am looking for an introduction there. If anyone has any contacts > there, especially here in the Bay Area, and would be willing to make > an intro, please let me know. > > Thanks! > -Tom > --- In sikmleaders@..., "Tom Short" wrote: > > I am looking for an introduction there. If anyone has any contacts > there, especially here in the Bay Area, and would be willing to make > an intro, please let me know. > > Thanks! > -Tom >
|
|
|
|
Tom Short <tom.short@...>
Yes, it's too bad that the whole "competitive network building"
mentallity has taken hold in Linked In. Now, when I see connections to people who show more than about 100 (or really even 50), my optimism about their usefulness drops a lot. The best ones are 2nd order hits with people who have less than 30 or so connections - then I'm quite optimistic that they would be able to help make the connection. Anything in the 100 range is suspect, and anything over 200 is a writeoff. --- In sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com, Valdis Krebs <valdis@...> wrote: you seek. Just because a 'mathematical path' exists in a network does not
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
Tom,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have about 100 contacts on LinkedIn and I have been diligent in just connecting to those people I really know [I even deleted over a dozen that I realized I really don't know]. My bar for a connection is set at: I either met in person and have collaborated or have worked together online, but no F2F contact. Most of my LI contacts are people I have known for years. Yet, there are still plenty of contacts I have who are not on LI. I bet Patti's connections are also well-filtered. I keep the "BS" filter on LI at about 500, but expect some noise and disconnects at half of that. Valdis
On Dec 11, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Tom Short wrote:
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
Tom, can you be more descriptive of the Ideo contact you would like to make? People have multiple paths to them thru multiple interests/ associations/memberships [like you & the IBM/PGE exec you described] -- the more we know the more alternate paths we may be able to come up with.
On Dec 11, 2007, at 12:43 PM, Tom Short wrote: Looked good on paper - didn't work. Not only did I not get any offers for help from the two or three people I asked in my network, I didn't even get a reply from them to my request! The nerve of some people ;-)This is what happens when people "over-connect" -- it is easy to accept a connection request, but then a hassle to help one of those connections, who is really a stranger. Those people who will connect with anyone are sometimes derisively called "link whores". We all suffer when the paths are blocked/diverted by link whores. Tom, you are probably not making it down the path because of someone else's poor choice of connections. Valdis
|
|
|
|
Peter Marshall <peter.marshall@...>
Fascinating discussion.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I just checked and see that I have 134 connections... Perhaps it's a self-selection phenomenon, but I find that I tend to see people with over 200 or 250 connections as link whores, but also see those with < 50 as technophobes of some kind.. I think there's a sweet spot of about 100-150 real connections. Like Valdis, I have been conscientious about only accepting real connections. Having said that, it's obvious that "system gaming" behavior is happening on LI. If everyone used the connections feature to identify their "relationships", then traversing trusted contacts would work... but since it is valuable for some people to appear connected or to be on pathways, people try to game it and distort the data. Perhaps Google's greatest strength as a platform is that it's fundamental algorithm remains "un-gamed", although there are many strategems to game Google, and once in awhile threats appear that actually undermine Google's effectiveness and the market shudders. But generally, Google has been very effective at maintaining the integrity of it's "if I'm connected to many well-connected sites, then my reputation is high" algorithm, by ruthlessly pruning sites that use exploits to appear to be well-connected. This suggests that a connection-validation strategy would be helpful for LI and similar sites. Perhaps something that required both parties to rate the relationship, and ignore links that were not mutually validated. Other ideas here? One more point -- I have found the best use of LI -- as other have -- to simply scan my one-level connections for likely hits on some request, and then communicate with them outside of LI... Of much less value, but has worked twice: searching and then following up with 2nd level hits, where I have a strong 1st level connection to them. No other approach has ever worked for me. One more note -- although MOST link whores are useless, there are some people that maintain high quality connections to many many people and are highly effective brokers. These are jewels, and finding them is priceless. Adam Rifkin is my personal connection to the universe and has been an absolute gold mine, and he has links well into the thousands. Peter
On Dec 11, 2007 1:33 PM, Valdis Krebs <valdis@orgnet.com> wrote:
--
Peter Marshall ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SVP, Platform Strategy & Professional Services Peracon, Inc. www.peracon.com McLean, VA Office: (703) 748-7517 Newport Beach, CA Office: (949) 706-6757 Mobile: (949) 689-7000 Skype: ideasware
|
|
|
|
Patti Anklam <patti@...>
I concur with Valdis on 2 of his notes today. I'm pretty
careful about filtering my LinkedIn contacts, so while I have quite a few they
are all people I know I could make a safe connection with.
Also -- very interesting given earlier postings, is that
Tom's original message to this list didn't provide context for what type of
person, at what level, in what role, that he was looking for at Ideo. Having
that information would have made it somewhat easier for people who do have
contacts there...
/patti
(978)456-4175
From: sikmleaders@... [mailto:sikmleaders@...] On Behalf Of Valdis Krebs Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 1:20 PM To: sikmleaders@... Subject: Re: [sikmleaders] Re: Anyone have any contacts at Ideo? Tom,
On Dec 11, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Tom Short wrote: > > Yes, it's too bad that the whole "competitive network building" > mentallity has taken hold in Linked In. Now, when I see connections > to > people who show more than about 100 (or really even 50), my optimism > about their usefulness drops a lot. The best ones are 2nd order hits > with people who have less than 30 or so connections - then I'm quite > optimistic that they would be able to help make the connection. > Anything in the 100 range is suspect, and anything over 200 is a > writeoff. > > > > > --- In sikmleaders@ >> >> Maybe Tom is looking to "close a triangle" -- get a direct >> introduction? Always the preferred route! >> >> LinkedIn often does not work for a quick/effective intro -- >> especially >> if the LinkedIn network path you need to utilize contains people who >> really don't know each other -- which happens quite a bit. >> LinkedIn/Facebook/ >> links[i.e. network noise] because some folks on on these sites will >> accept any invitation, while others are in a race towards 'my network >> is bigger' and want to get as many people in their direct circle as >> possible, even if many/most are strangers. These links often fail >> when >> it comes time to activate and use them in finding a path to someone > you >> seek. Just because a 'mathematical path' exists in a network does not >> mean it will be found, or be effectively utilized. >> >> I'd be interested in hearing both + and - experiences in meeting key >> people through a connection via LinkedIn, Facebook, etc. >> >> Valdis >> valdis@... >> http://www.orgnet. >>
|
|
|
|
Tom Short <tom.short@...>
Funny enough, after I wrote the above, I continued reading the NYTimes Sunday Magazine article "The 7th Annual Year in Ideas," and in finishing up the article, read the last Idea, entitled Zygotic Social Networking. Here, a snippet:
Guess the question is, what does such "deep linking" mean, in terms of social networking? What sort of inherent social capital does such linking imply or convey?
|
|
|
|
Jack Vinson <jackvinson@...>
Tom-
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I'm a little late here, but I have contacts at the Evanston, IL office. But... As always, it would be helpful to understand what you are looking for before I make the introduction. We are all busy people, after all. And it isn't a very strong connection. (They've been guest lecturers in my KM class at Northwestern.) Another option is to check with your friends in academia that are near Ideo -- they may be doing projects together. As far as LinkedIn goes, I've nearly 500 connections and I have attempted to only link to people I've met in some way. I will totally admit that there are people in there that I don't really "know." And I actually clean out my connections from time-to-time. AND I try to forward along any requests where I can help. I also have a huge contact list in my local address book -- as I am sure many other people do. I also echo Dave Snowden's suggestion. Try using your other passive social networks: post a status on Facebook or a query on Twitter (to name some of the popular places). Regards, Jack Vinson, Ph.D. http://www.jackvinson.com
-----Original Message-----
From: sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Short Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:51 AM To: sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sikmleaders] Anyone have any contacts at Ideo? I am looking for an introduction there. If anyone has any contacts there, especially here in the Bay Area, and would be willing to make an intro, please let me know. Thanks! -Tom Yahoo! Groups Links
|
|
|
|
Tom Short <tom.short@...>
Hey Jack - thank you for offering to help. I've made an initial
connection at Ideo - will see where it goes. Trying to do some informational interviewing there, as I am in the process of looking at job options. --- In sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com, "Jack Vinson" <jackvinson@...> wrote: office. looking for before I make the introduction. We are all busy people, afterall. And it isn't a very strong connection. (They've been guest lecturers inmy KM class at Northwestern.) Another option is to check with your friends inattempted to only link to people I've met in some way. I will totally admit thatthere are people in there that I don't really "know." And I actuallyclean out my connections from time-to-time. AND I try to forward along any requestsaddress book -- as I am sure many other people do.social networks: post a status on Facebook or a query on Twitter (to namesome of the popular places).[mailto:sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Short
|
|
|
|
--- In sikmleaders@..., Valdis Krebs wrote: Hi, Valdis. As Dave Snowden suggested, the status line in Facebook can be used to ask for contacts. Tony Karrer's status line once said that he was looking for social networking gurus. Several people replied with contacts (the list I sent to Tony is at http://h20325.www2.hp.com/blogs/garfield/archive/2007/10/15/4758.html ). LinkedIn has been useful in finding details about people who contact me through other channels. I can search for them in LinkedIn and figure out where they are located, their current organization, etc. It is also a good way to let others maintain their own contact info, including email address, so that it is current when I need to contact them. Regards, Stan
|
|
|
|
Valdis Krebs <valdis@...>
Yes, only if you buy the basic or advanced LinkedIn service. The original free service does not allow you to see someone's contact info... unless they were clever and made their current email part of their "user name".
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I also use LI, FaceBook and Google to check out people that contact me out of the blue... Google is more time consuming, but often reveals interesting hobbies like the person who just contacted me finished 5th in the Oklahoma City marathon for 50 and older. Lots of internet/web 2.0 folks have made a mass migration to FB in the last 12 months, but F500 folks are mostly on LI. Now I am getting invites to "trust" on a new social search engine called Spock.com! These social networking sites will never reach their potential if they always require for us to join and then name connections and invite others. Their client-server model will never work because real social networking is peer-to-peer... is person-centered, not site centered. Valdis
On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Stan Garfield wrote:
It is also a good way to let others maintain their own contact info, including email address, so that it is current when I need to contact them.
|
|
|
|
--- In sikmleaders@yahoogroups.com, Valdis Krebs <valdis@...> wrote:
Hi, Valdis. Just to clarify, I use the free version of LinkedIn. I can see the email address of people in my LinkedIn network (it's at the bottom of their full profile). I can't see it for people not in my network, but I can see the other information in their profile. And if I click on "Add <name> to your network" I get a screen which allows me to invite them to join my network. This is now easier than in the past, when it required me to supply an email address for the person. Now it just asks me "How do you know <name>?" and then it sends the invitation. Regards, Stan
|
|
|